"Does anyone know the percent grade of the following hills:
1. from riverside drive up to the traffic light (165th St in Manhattan)
2. state line hill (rockland to bergen counties)
3. first and second half of the hill in prospect park
4. little tor
5. big hill at the north end of central park
6. the gradual slope that comes a bit after the big hill at the north end of central park
7. ash st (piermont)
8. any other common hills in the area
i'd like to know how the numbers (""It's a 7% grade"" and ""It's a 17% grade!"") actually apply to reality.
Thanks.
"
Percent Grade on Hills?
Mon, 03/24/2003 - 6:28am
Mon, 03/24/2003 - 5:52pm
#1
Climb Grades
"1. from riverside drive up to the traffic light (165th St in Manhattan) 9% 0.1 miles
2. state line hill (rockland to bergen counties)exactly what part?
3. first and second half of the hill in prospect park
4. little tor 10.7% 0.70 miles
5. big hill at the north end of central park 3% 1/2 mile
6. the gradual slope that comes a bit after the big hill at the north end of central park about the same average grade as the Harlem Hill, but more constant
7. ash st (piermont)around 20%
8. any other common hills in the area -- Alpine from the River to Park HQ -- 1.25 miles, 6.7%; Seven Lakes-Perkins -- 4.5 miles, 5.3%; Mohonk -- 2.2 miles, 7.9%; Minnewaska -- 5.5 miles, 4.9%; Glade Hill Road -- 1.9 miles, 12.7%; Ellenville-South Gully Road -- 4.0 miles, 7.2% (South Gully section is steeper); Whiteface Mountain -- 7.9 miles, 8.4% (race course).
i'd like to know how the numbers (""It's a 7% grade"" and ""It's a 17% grade!"") actually apply to reality.
Don't know what you mean here. Most of the ""other"" climbs I listed are ""real"" climbs and worth experiencing. With proper fitness, gearing and attitude all climbs are surmountable. Do not, however, try to extrapolate the experience of, say, Little Tor to Whiteface Mountain, or Ash Street to Glade Hill Road as these climbs are worlds apart and what works for a short, 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile climb will cause immeasurable suffering on a 2, 4 or 8 mile climb. For example, if all you have is a 39X23, and you are reasonably strong, you can get up Little Tor, although it will be a bit of a grind. You would not want a 39X23 on a 8 miles 8+% climb.
"
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 12:11pm
#2
Where?
Where's Glade Hill Rd and South Gully Rd? While we're at it, where's Little Tor?
Thanks in advance,
Oblong
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 7:37pm
#3
Where the hills are
"1. Glade Hill road is Ulster County, off of the north side of Roundout Resevoir. To get there,
Take US 209 north from Ellenville,
Make a left onto New York 55 West.
Take a right on 55a. The resevoir will be on your right.
At the end of 55a, take a right onto Ulster 42.
The Next Left is Sugar hill road
the Next left is GLADE HILL Road. You have been going uphill all this time, but now you will CLIMB
2. South Gully Road. Once again if you are in Ellenville, take 52 east (up hill) and look for the sign that says ""Gully Road""
3. Little Tor is in Rockland county. Don't know the roads to get there
If you bike this from 209"
Thu, 03/27/2003 - 9:12am
#4
Glade Hill Rd.
Glade Hill Road: Actually, when you make a right on 55A, the reservoir will be on your left. After a few miles along the north side of the reservoir, there will be a T in the road at which 55A turns left towards Grahamsville; here you make a right on 153 (Sundown Rd., which continues north as 42 after Sundown). You then make a left on Sugarloaf Rd., then another left on Glade Hill Rd.
Is Glade Hill steeper than Sugarloaf? Sugarloaf starts off as a gentle climb through the valley, then picks up and becomes very steep for two miles or more. I don't know the percent grade.
Thu, 03/27/2003 - 1:07pm
#5
hills
Thanks for the info Chris. As it turns out, those hill's are near New Paltz. New Paltz is a place I rock-climb occasionally - an area commonly referred to as the 'Gunks'. I guess I'll be able to make a day of it some time. That is if I've got any gas left after the cycling climbs.
I really appreciate the reply.
Oblong
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 5:01am
#6
different % figs for grades
On 12/01 Hank Schiffman published different figures in a table I could fax anyone...I KNOW Ash is not 20% If it were I couldn't climb it!
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 6:00am
#7
"Ash Street is difficult to discern using National Geographic Topo. The whole length up to 9W averages 12%, but the beginning section is must steeper -- as I said ""around 20%"". It could in fact be 18% but much lower. I will try looking at it with some other software.
Short distances of 20% are readily climbable, its when they get longer it becomes a grind -- if you don't have the correct gearing. With the correct gearing, any hill can be climbed comfortably. This is why I prefer length (with grade secondary) as a measure of difficulty. In fact, I have said this many times, the quickest way up a mountain is straight and steep. You can climb 1000 vertical feet quicker at a 12% grade than you can a 6% grade."
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 8:47am
#8
You still have to generate the power
"John Z wrote:
""With the correct gearing, any hill can be climbed comfortably.""
Not always true. You have to maintain a minimum speed of 4-5 mph to keep the bike upright. The steepness of the climb (and the weight of the rider) determines how much power is required to maintain that pace. On a long, steep climb, some folks just won't have the aerobic capacity to maintain that power level. Low gears let you use less pedal force, but not less power.
Art"
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 9:55am
#9
minimum velocity
"""Not always true. You have to maintain a minimum speed of 4-5 mph to keep the bike upright.""
Mostly true. You can actually climb a lot slower than 4-5 mph to stay upright. I’ve had computer displays of 1–2 mph on extended climbs when I was really tired. As a matter of fact, if you have a good sense of balance you can go 0 mph and stay upright (track stand). I’ve yet to see somebody roll down a hill backwards, although I assume it’s possible.
It is true the work done at the top of the climb is the same, but with appropriate gearing, conditioning and adequate oxygen. You are less likely to have a heart attack or passout before you get there.
Chuck"
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 11:58am
#10
Good Point
Good point. Most use gearing is to maintain a reasonable cadence by reduction in force. This allows a rider to ride longer at the same power output -- it does not reduce power requirements for the same speed. Studies show a rider can ride twice as long at a cadence of 80 vs. a cadence of 40 for the same power output. Some riders user lower gear ratios to get them to a force/power combination they can sustain, at a reduction in speed. However, if the combination of power output, weight, and steepness results in a very low speed, the hill should be avoided...
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 2:17pm
#11
i cannot believe that mr z would suggest that a hill should be avoided, regardless of the circumstances! clearly, this poster is an imposter.
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 2:47pm
#12
It all amounts to nothing over the long term
Keep in mind: Only half the world is uphill. On balance, the slope of the earth is (close to?) 0%. ;-)
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 3:25pm
#13
Not where, but when
Yet to be personally determined, I thought after a certain age it's all downhill.
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 8:40am
#14
Age
>Yet to be personally determined, I thought after a certain age it's all downhill.
Unless you’re at the beginning or the very end, it all depends on which way you face.
Tue, 03/25/2003 - 6:21pm
#15
Its Me!
Frank;
I would never postulate that certain climbs should be enjoyed by all, and many that I subject myself to I would never recommend to the population at large. Believe it or not, I was the strongest voice against including Glade Hill Road in the final A-Classic STS ride.
Here is a clue its me -- my bike has very unique cables.
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 8:38am
#16
Head wind stronger than tail wind
BG wrote–
>Keep in mind: Only half the world is uphill. On balance, the slope of the earth is (close to?) 0%. ;-)
Yes, but as land animals starting out at sea level, there are a lot more mountains than deep valleys, almost all of them are under water.
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 8:55am
#17
Good Point Clarification
I’m kinda slow (pun intended), could you elaborate on–
JZ wrote–
>Some riders user lower gear ratios to get them to a force/power combination they can sustain, at a reduction in speed. However, if the combination of power output, weight, and steepness results in a very low speed, the hill should be avoided...
At what point should one decide – this is too steep, the going is too slow, I’m going home, see you guys.
Please help out the slow and the large of the population.
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 11:52am
#18
This is a difficult question to answer without knowing specifics of power output at lactate threshold and weight. However, assuming a 200 pound rider, 22 pounds of bike and clothing and a 12 % grade, that rider would have to sustain 175 watts to move at 3 MPH, which is about as slow as most can go without falling over. Now, gearing becomes important -- 3 mph in a 39X27 is only a cadence of 26, quite a grind. I think the lowest possible gear ratio is like 26X34, and that still only would put your cadence in the 50s.
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 7:44am
#19
speaking of hills
I've heard that there are some other people besides myself that are signed up for Mt. Washington. Perhaps we could plan some training rides if anyone is interested.
Christopher
Wed, 03/26/2003 - 8:27am
#20
Training Plans
"Several of us doing Mount Washington use the A-Classic STS rides to provide base, and supplement it with individual mid-week training which is often hard to coordinate. The STS runs through May 10, after which some of us will do more focused training together, first targeting the Whiteface Race on June 21, which is an excellent event in its own right.
I can give you a rough idea of my plans as follows: May 17 weekend I am doing the Assault on Mount Mitchell and won't be around. The weekend after that is Memorial Day weekend. Myself and several friends typically go to Whiteface Mountain for a ""climbing camp"" and you would be welcome to join. The first weekend in June I will probably lead a Bear Mountain Repeat training ride (train to Garrison, 3 repeats, hard tempo ride back to the city). The second weekend in June I will be back up at Whiteface, third weekend in June another Bear Mountain repeat, forth weekend in June is the Whiteface race. July-August is to far out to plan, but it will include for myself and a couple others the Mount Ascutney race, and several of us will probably do a day up there before the race as well. We also do ad-hoc stuff, so keep in touch."
Thu, 03/27/2003 - 10:31am
#21
% grade DIY
Specialized Speed Zone Pro cyclocomputer (with inclinometer) :
http://www.specialized.com/SBCEqProduct.jsp?section=12979&browselevel=to...
Tue, 04/01/2003 - 7:07am
#22
Hank's Compilation
"Very similar to what I previously posted, but more comprehensive. Slight variations based upon the difficulty of defining where a climb starts and ends.
Manhattan
Harlem Hill – Central Park 0.32 mile 84’ 4.4%
165th St Hill – Riverside Dr/Ft Wash Ave 0.09 mile 40’ 8.4%
Bronx
Riverside Ave - W 230th St/W 239th St 0.68 mile 150’ 4.2%
Staten Island
Grymes Hill – Terrace 0.38 mile 230’ 11.5%
Bergan
Alpine(police station)Hill-to grade change at top 1.07 miles 400’ 7.1%
Churchill 0.69 mile 240’ 6.6%
Closter Dock – 501/crest at Ridge 1.97 miles 415’ 4.0%
E Clinton – Dean/crest s of Woodland 1.13 miles 340’ 5.7%
E Clinton – Old Smith/crest s of Woodland 0.52 mile 225’ 8.2%
Speer 0.33 mile 198’ 11.4%
Walnut – from Lydecker 0.55 mile 190’ 6.5%
Westchester
Roaring Brook Rd 0.75 mile 337’ 8.5%
Whippoorwill Rd to top from 120 2.57 miles 298’ 2.2%
Whippoorwill Rd – 1st mile from 120 1.0 mile 200’ 3.8%
Whippoorwill Crossing 1.42 miles 292’ 3.9%
Whippoorwill from 117 – steep section only 0.85 mile 306’ 6.8%
Whippoorwill Rd East – steep section only 0.52 mile 200’ 7.3%
Hardscrabble Rd – 120/top of 1st hill 0.7 mile 210’ 5.7%
Hardscrabble Rd – from 120, start 0.1 mile 50’ 9.5%
Rockland
Ash – to divide just short of 9W 0.32 mile 205’ 12.1%
Little Tor 0.8 mile 420’ 9.9%
South Mtn Rd to the Orchards 1.6 miles 360’ 4.3%
S Mtn Rd Orchards Hill – steep section 0.69 mile 240’ 6.6%
Rt 106 – rise w of Central Hwy/Lake Welch 4.85 miles 960’ 3.7%
State Line Hill - Oak Tree/crest at state line 0.57 mile 167’ 5.5%
Gate Hill to Lake Welch 1.45 miles 520’ 6.8%
Gate Hill to Rt 106 junction 0.61 mile 320’ 9.9%
7 Lakes Dr – Bear Mtn Inn Cir/start Perkins 1.8 mile 428’ 4.5%
Perkins Memorial Drive 2.1 mile 660’ 6.0%
Orange
Hogback Mtn – east to west 2.2 miles 685’ 6.9%
Mt Peter – east to west 1.6 miles 547’ 6.4%
Ulster
Mohonk – west(6/6A) to east(top) 1.91 miles 713’ 7.1%
Minnewaska – 299/Trapps Bridges(1st crest) 1.41 miles 468’ 6.3%
Minnewaska – hairpin/Trapps Bridge 0.57 mile 218’ 7.2%
Minnewaska – Berm Rd/Lake Minnewaska 5.49 miles 1112’ 3.9%
Sullivan
Glade Hill Rd 1.9 miles 1259’ 12.5%
"
